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Thread: Malaysian Airlines Crash in Ukraine

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey Thomason View Post
    No. I don't think it will come to that if we can stand firm now. But with the ineffectual, timid leadership in the west today, I'm quite worried.

    Tell me.. are you willing to allow a Putinist empire that stretches from the Rhine to the Pacific, unchecked?

    I understand not wanting to get involved at all, but at some point our interests do become threatened, our friends do become killed, our world does change in a way that hurts our country... at some point you have to do something.
    "Hurts our country"?????????????????????????


    Surely you jest, why you needn't look anywhere past our own borders to see what is HURTING OUR COUNTRY THE MOST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It literally sickens me to watch good patriotic Americans CONTINUALLY look abroad at foreign "threats" when the absolute worst and MOST DESTRUCTIVE are right here at home in our face every damn day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Wake up man! You want people to pay for their aggression, crimes, THREAT to this Nation??????


    It's ALL right here.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey Thomason View Post
    He won't, his KGB-era paranoia requires a set of buffer states between Russia and NATO... well a number of those historical buffer states are now in NATO...
    Ya, that's the rub. His best hope is to solidify his economy and try to at least draw them into Russia's economic orbit, then wait. He seems to have both the time and the patience so we'll see - he's not constricted like democracies that role over their administrations and policies twice a decade or so.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey Thomason View Post
    Perhaps, but to draw that out to justify Crimea and Donbass is absurd. And the west also didn't provide weapons of war to Euromaidan. Putin was dealt a bad hand at the table and pulled out a revolver.

    ETA: .. and gave it to the drunk dudebro next to him.
    I like this example.
    Here is my opinion. As I said, I know people in that area. While the separatist movement has supporters in that area, they are far from the majority. And the leaders of the movement are from Russia. They refer to the troops as mercenaries.
    Besides that info, think it through logically. The separatists have a large amount of military hardware. They have enough tanks and artillery to exceed the army of many small countries. And they somewhere got the training on how to use it. You do not just put the key in a tank and drive it off the Ukrainian military base where you supposedly found it. Artillery especially requires training. The most logical explanation is that they got the material and the training, if not trained troops, from Russia.
    And where do they get the reloads? In war you expend a lot of bullets and shells. You can't explain that by using the excuse of captured military bases. They are getting resupplied from somewhere.
    Where do they get the spare parts? Maintaining tanks and artillery during wartime requires a huge amount of spare parts. Where do they get the diesel for the tanks? You can bet that the Ukrainians aren't sending large shipments of fuel into the area.
    All signs point to them getting resupplied from Russia.
    Since the terrorists bragged about getting a Buk anti aircraft system, I would take them at their word. That gave them the ability to shoot down the aircraft. I don't think we can ever conclusively prove who made that shot. But in my opinion only the terrorists had the motivation.
    I've heard the explanation that maybe the Ukrainian military thought they were shooting at Putin's plane. The plane was obviously going West to East. Putin would have had to travel north from Donetsk to get to Moscow. Plus, he was coming back from South America, and it wouldn't have made sense for him to fly over that part of Ukraine.
    The Ukrainian military wouldn't have been as trigger happy about planes, since there were only a few incidents before that with Russian planes. Also, they would only have been threatened by a plane flying from east to west, which that plane obviously wasn't.
    I don't think that they would have shot the plane to blame it on the separatists, because that is a tremendous gamble and they were winning. They were slowly gaining territory back, but they're constantly pushing the terrorists back.
    It seems much more likely to me that it would have been the terrorists, since they would be threatened by a plane going from west to east. Also, Ukrainian military planes had been severely punishing them.

  4. #164
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    Joop Hazenberg ‏@joophazenberg 2h
    Incredible sight. As the procession of #MH17 victims passes, cars stop on the opposite direction of the highway






    Last edited by Godwit; 07-23-2014 at 02:39 PM.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt5-7 View Post
    It's ALL right here.
    No, not all of it. You are claiming that people here can't watch both the domestic assault and the foreign problems. Rest assured, both can be monitored.

    Focusing exclusively over either one is dangerous.

    (To further pursue the discussion, the domestic threats are a product of an older foreign threat, and the two are coming together as promised decades ago.)
    "See, in the last few years...we've stumbled... And when you stumble a lot, you...you start looking at your feet. We have to make people...lift their eyes back to the horizon and see the line of ancestors behind us saying, 'Make my life have meaning.' And to our inheritors before us saying, 'Create the world we will live in.' I mean, we're not just holding jobs and having dinner. We are in the process of building the future."

    Outbound

    The Frigid Times
    http://www.frigidtimes.blogspot.com/


  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt5-7 View Post
    "Hurts our country"?????????????????????????


    Surely you jest, why you needn't look anywhere past our own borders to see what is HURTING OUR COUNTRY THE MOST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It literally sickens me to watch good patriotic Americans CONTINUALLY look abroad at foreign "threats" when the absolute worst and MOST DESTRUCTIVE are right here at home in our face every damn day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Wake up man! You want people to pay for their aggression, crimes, THREAT to this Nation??????


    It's ALL right here.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSearcher View Post
    No, not all of it. You are claiming that people here can't watch both the domestic assault and the foreign problems. Rest assured, both can be monitored.

    Focusing exclusively over either one is dangerous.

    (To further pursue the discussion, the domestic threats are a product of an older foreign threat, and the two are coming together as promised decades ago.)
    JT didn't reply to my post to him. You reply, and miss the point.

    Your pov regarding foreign/domestic threats is like a man inside his burning house keeping an eye on his neighbor out the window smoking a cigarette by his dry lawn.

    JT spoke of what COULD hurt our country from around the world, I think that is completely being blind to the FACT that this country IS BURNING domestically as we type.


    You go ahead and watch the Ukraine and Israel, and when you finally look away to see where you are DONT BE SURPRISED!


  7. #167
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    How about if you manage to stay on subject once in awhile, Matt?- and the subject is NOT "The US sucks"...

    Summerthyme

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt5-7 View Post
    JT didn't reply to my post to him. You reply, and miss the point.

    Your pov regarding foreign/domestic threats is like a man inside his burning house keeping an eye on his neighbor out the window smoking a cigarette by his dry lawn.

    JT spoke of what COULD hurt our country from around the world, I think that is completely being blind to the FACT that this country IS BURNING domestically as we type.


    You go ahead and watch the Ukraine and Israel, and when you finally look away to see where you are DONT BE SURPRISED!

    I'm going to try to reason with you ONE MORE TIME: Yes, we have domestic threats, and if you think we are missing that because we have commentary here on this foreign policy thread, you're wrong. If you are unable to look at both the domestic problem AND the foreign one, that is entirely your problem. Quit lying about our motivations.

    Our domestic problems are undeniably real, and are an extension of the older foreign threat. The fact that they are coming to a head at the same time is not a coincidence, we were even told ahead of time by our enemy and its defectors that this would come to pass.

    Get your head together, man. Your posts here are myopic and abusive, and as we seem to be reaching endgame, totally counterproductive.
    "See, in the last few years...we've stumbled... And when you stumble a lot, you...you start looking at your feet. We have to make people...lift their eyes back to the horizon and see the line of ancestors behind us saying, 'Make my life have meaning.' And to our inheritors before us saying, 'Create the world we will live in.' I mean, we're not just holding jobs and having dinner. We are in the process of building the future."

    Outbound

    The Frigid Times
    http://www.frigidtimes.blogspot.com/


  9. #169
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    Back to the topic.

    Who shot down MH17?????


    Credibility of accusers?????

    Secretary of State John Kerry: Use of Chemical Weapons in Syria 'Undeniable'
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoPBb3xJPYQ

    In a press conference Monday, Secretary of State John Kerry said that the Obama administration plans on holding Syrian President Bashar al-Assad accountable for the "moral obscenity."
    Later reports put the chemical weapons usage on the rebel side with Assad forces on the receiving end.

    Russia and Putin SAVED the American people from the US Governments lies trying to drag us into War with Syria. How many here have forgotten that????


    Credibility on accusations regarding the MH17 is VERY important and we have proven liars from less than a year ago wanting us to believe them now????

  10. #170
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    Default All you ever need to know about the separatists

    I read this article and felt physically sick. It says a lot about the character of the separatists that they would loot the dead bodies from the plane crash.

    https://translate.google.com/transla...-text=&act=url

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